and, therefore, we are stuck with a pakistan because i fear we withdraw, which? pakistan loses. oil we entice pakistan in various ways into collaborating in a stage withdrawal. so, this comes to the point that it really doesn't matter what happened in the past. if our goal is to somehow exit afghanistan without attempting to occupy it which is not a choice. we must deal with pakistan. i mean, who else can we? >> host: the question is not dealing with pakistan so much as what is the longer-term outcome in terms of are they going to come away from wherever we end up with a new status quo in afghanistan, we commit to the campaign of undermining their neighbor next door in india. that's -- >> guest: we can avoid that by staying in afghanistan permanently. or live with it. so here's exactly how i approach the foreign policy issue. you pose the question, if pakistan comes to be secure in afghanistan, we can destabilize india? may well. shall be therefore state permit in afghanistan? how do we prevent that? what i come to say yeah, i think pakistan and india have reasons to distrust ea